Announcement On The Radar v2

Status
Not open for further replies.

hidin

What a kind young man
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
yeahwetier.png

Hello everyone, it's been a few days since the Gholdengo suspect and we've been talking about what to do first in this new and altered post-Gholdengo metagame. To this end we have come up with a list of things that both us and the community have deemed discussion-worthy, and we wish to have a bit more conversation about these Pokemon before holding a council vote in the coming days. These are Baxcalibur, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, Iron Valiant, Sneasler, and Tapu Lele.

:baxcalibur: Baxcalibur

Baxcalibur started the generation off being often overlooked compared to other physical Dragon-type Pokemon like Garchomp and Dragonite, and at one point even being called an inferior Kyurem due to its lower bulk and "inferior" ability compared to Pressure. But eventually, Baxcalibur found itself in the spotlight because of how potent it is as a set-up sweeper with either Dragon Dance or Swords Dance, an incredibly strong signature move in Glaive Rush, absurd Ice + Ground attacking combination, a burn immunity, not being too bad of a Choice item user, and its insane mid- or late-game sweeping capabilities with Terastallization. With all those traits, it is without a doubt Baxcalibur has a constricting hold on both the builder and gameplay and is often being unable to be stopped once given an opportunity to get a boost, which is not hard for it to do at all with its good bulk and all of the Tera options it has at its disposal. Rather it be revenge killers like Tapu Lele and Kartana that get turned into fodder with Tera Poison or Fairy, or defensive checks like Mega Scizor and Dondozo that become invalidated with Tera Ground and Dragon respectively, it is often too easy for Baxcalibur to invalidate its only checks which is quite problematic. With all of this in mind, we have decided to put Baxcalibur as our highest priority that is On the Radar.

:ursaluna-bloodmoon: Ursaluna-Bloodmoon

Being questioned constantly on why it is still legal in National Dex, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon has been quite the Pokemon to deal with in the metagame. Possessing absurd breaking, tanking, and trading potential that is backed up with boosting options with Calm Mind and semi-reliable longevity with Moonlight, it is extremely challenging to deal with Ursaluna. Unlike its cousin who was infamous for its overstayed welcome in Ubers and having actual ways to outplay, methods of outplaying and checking Ursaluna is close to none. With both Mind's Eye ignoring immunities like an emergency Tera Ghost and a 140 BP STAB option in tandem with its 135 Special Attack, switching into Ursaluna is often a tedious task that will result in you having to do an unfavorable trade, or in some cases, just lose the game outright. With Tera options like Ghost, Fairy, and Poison that add onto its aforementioned insane trading capabilities, Ursaluna has cemented itself as a very problematic factor in the metagame.

:sneasler: Sneasler

Sneasler has been an oddball when it comes to whether it should stay in the tier or not, but with the recent ban of Gholdengo, Sneasler has started to show off a bit too much with its Unburden + SD sets. While it could threaten Gholdengo before its ban with Night Slash or Shadow Claw, Sneasler now having the option to forget about it completely to break through would-be checks like Landorus-T and Toxapex is something that must be noted. Dire Claw has also been infamous for its potential to take the game out of the players hands if dealt with an unfavorable status condition, which is quite uncompetitive.

:iron-valiant: :tapu-lele: Iron Valiant and Tapu Lele

These two Pokemon are grouped together as they are both the most relevant Fairy-type Pokemon in the metagame that got significantly better by Gholdengo leaving the tier. With no foolproof Steel-type that has reliable recovery to check Tapu Lele and Iron Valiant, they have become very hard to deal with since they have so much more opportunity to click buttons against a majority of the tier. Even good checks like Mega Scizor isn't completely safe, as it is dented by Focus Blast from the former and Hidden Power Fire from the latter. However, they both bring something that is valuable to the tier as a form of speed control and as a revenge killer, so their place in the metagame is something we currently are wondering about.

Please do share your thoughts in this thread on each one of these, your experiences using and facing them, as well as any and all pro- or anti-ban arguments. We will be greatly considering community feedback when moving into these votes, which should happen at some point over the next few days. Let us know your thoughts, and please be courteous.
 
Last edited:
1699147563487.png
Of all the mons listed here, I think this bear probably should be suspected first, at minimum. Not only does it have an incredible offensive profile with stabs of Earth Power, Hyper Voice, and of course, Blood Moon, it also carries enough bulk to live through the majority of attacks in the tier. 113/120/65 defensive stats in combination with terastallization essentially mandate prediction to kill it. It even has a way to make up for its poor SpD with CM sets, and it has reliable recovery on top of all of that. As such, most games in which Ursaluna is involved in my experience often result in the opponent being forced to go out of their way to beat it before either a) enough of their team is weakened/killed for Ursaluna's teammates to clean up or b) Ursaluna accumulates enough boosts to sweep with the combination of strong stabs for walls and Vacuum Wave/burning tera for anything that's both faster AND threatens to OHKO.

Of course, could be personal bias, just my thoughts on the matter.
 
Last edited:
:Baxcalibur: I feel like this is self explanatory, it should just be gone no reason for it to stay ever. Not only does it hit really damn hard that a life orb tera dragon glaive rush can possibly 2 shot dozo, it's also decently bulky meaning it's harder to revenge kill especially with tera being around which allows it to set up more easily against stuff(like say you tera steel against a scarf lele now you get 2 free dd's. Isn't that just fun). There's also the problem of auora veil though it isn't the sole reason to its power.



Now it does have its checks(like msciz for example) but that can be brute forced with stuff like tera ground bax or the uncommon tera fire bax meaning there's no real check to this mon, you just have to hope. Anyways that's why I feel like it should be quickbanned.

:Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: While this mon isn't as broken as bax, it still can snowball easily if you aren't consistently threatening it. Even then, it can just use moonlight to heal off. Add this with its very good bulk, it becomes hard to stop once it gets going.

Anyways that's why it should be quickbanned or suspected

:Sneasler: now that the cheesestick isnt running around, it can now spam acrobatics without much consequence. Pair this with lele and its an instant gg.
While stuff like Zapdos can threaten it with static, sneas doesnt have to use dire claw and can just use gunk shot instead which does more and csn one shot it. Anyways please quickban.

:Iron Valiant: ngl im kind of surprised that this mon is on the radar. While yes gholdengo is gone meaning that it can spam specs moonblast, it's still a lot more manageable than the rest with mons like msciz,zapdos,moltres, and the uncommon volcarona being decent checks against it. Iron Valiant doesn't have the highest bulk in the world and can be more easily revenge killed by the likes of mlop,mmedi, and tera normal espeed.
Anyways i don't see this being problematic for a bit so for now no action.

:Tapu Lele: This mon has shown to already be a huge threat with gholdengo being gone. Not much wants to take its stabs and most steels can be hit by focus blast. Tera psychic can hit ridiculously hard especially with specs that some steels cant switch in against it for long. Future sight also pairs very well with the common fightings in the tier like shifu, zama, and tusk making it a pain to switch in against.

With all this being said, i do think it isnt all that problematic. It still needs to run scarf to be able to outspeed meaning its easier to exploit and forces it to predict and if its non scarf, you can outspeed it with mons that have more than base 100 which you most likely will have.
Anyways while i do think it is a very powerful mon, i dont think its good enough for it to warrant any action so for now no action

Have a good day!
 

Slowpoke Fan

Slow?
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Community Leader
whenever it hits the field:

The mon abuses screens like Curry while having the wallbreaking power of Shaq with its setup sets, and even unawares can be caught off guard with the rare band set.

suspect, it felt like an opportunistic mon on the teams I've played with it and never felt overbearing.

suspect, Sinistcha actually beats this!

probably more concerning than Sneasler to me, it really shreds the tier with specs as long as 70% hits, which is admittedly a big ask.

should be on the back burner.
 
:baxcalibur: Quickban. I pretty much said all I wanted to on the mon in a post I made in the main metagame discussion thread, but to reiterate this mon can run enough variations of set up sets and it punishes making a wrong move more than anything in the tier. It's very difficult to pivot around, though not impossible, and defensively has very few checks. And still thrives vs offense thanks to its bulk and dragon dance, especially backed by tera. Counterplay is far too limited and it's too easily able to take games if given a moment.

:Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: quickban. I also went over this mon before too and am surprised people want to even entertain a suspect when it would largely end up a waste of time, imo, as counterplay to it here is not really much, if any better than it was in standard SV play. It puts out immense pressure when on the field not unlike Baxcalibur, but has superior bulk and longevity which makes checking it longterm a very difficult task. Its quite easy to tweak its moveset a tiny bit and get around the few chveks it has. Even if offensive counterplay can exist to a degree, it often is a multi pokemon effort to congain it and I think this simply puts far too muxh strain on the tier.

:Sneasler: quickban? I wouldn't hate a suspect, and I don't think this is super broken compared to the first two especially as I've played more this past week post Ghold, and found that it's possible to semi contain it, but at the same time I think this mon also provides nothing of value to the tier and just exists as an obnoxious cheese mon that can claim games with dire claw that it shouldn't have.

:Iron Valiant: :Tapu Lele: no action as of now. While I understand some concerns about Lele in a non Ghold meta, remember that tera psychic specs could break it down with spikes up anyway. I think it actually mostly is a positive addition with scarf being great accessible speed control and revenge killing tool. It's actually pretty possible to reasonably limit the threat of specs with proper scouting and building. Valiant I feel similarly and though it's potential for possibly being too much, I think it's a great tool both for and against offense and its wide versatility makes it a very customizable pokemon players can use to fill a number of roles. Which I find a positive thing for fhe metagames.
 

Kin+ak (✧∇✧)

I COULD BE BANNED!
sorry But all of them should be qb asap. ursa:ursaluna-bloodmoon: tanks mlop:lopunny-mega:'s cC, which is a big no-no. Tera gives it ways too much options And Even without It's a big delete button. Its ability + typing gives It near perfect coverage And spdef celesteela:celesteela: is the only real answer. i'm not saying It is bad, But ursa surely is broken.
baxcalibur:baxcalibur: is very broken, With the buff of Ice type in gen9 via snow mechanics, giving It a nearly perfect ally in ninetales-a:ninetales-alola:. Indeed, It has a valid support movepool in aurora veil, encore and hypnosis. The bulk of bax Also makes It too hard to deal with. Aurora veil+ snow is too much for a mon with 115/96/72 bulk with access to ddance, icicle spear, sd, glaive rush and scale shot, with a prio If needed (Ice shard) and Just enough coverage (Earthquake) and to counter It only ironpress orthworm:orthworm:(not so Good) or toxic bronzong:bronzong: strike me If not dondozo:dondozo: that is 2hko by band Tera dragon versions of The set. Cause yes, add to The aforementionned sd and ddance The choiced sets, clearly potent. Could've been banned Even with ghold around.

Now, these mons that Have snowballed with gholdengo :gholdengo: being gone.

Sneasler :sneasler: is very strong and Even aegislash:aegislash::aegislash-blade:, that looks Good on paper to wall It struggles because of The multiplication of sd and not having a so Good offensive power (makeitrain>flash cannon) While It is obligated to use king's shield half of The time not to be ohko anw. Psycho cut is a bad set, and so is hypothetically psychium z psycho cut. It struggles to deal real damage While tanking hits, and sneasler otherwise kill everything in the meta, whirlwind skarmory:skarmory: being the one meta thing that'll always be here to sTOP It, thanks to sturdy+dire claw immunity, and If hazards are on field, Well It's goodbye for it. While sneasler may look not so dangerous against poison types, none Can effectively take all hits, except maybe physdef toxtricity:toxtricity::toxtricity-low-key:, something no conscious person would play, and anw dire claw's statuses Will invalidate 'em. Red card mons would be an answer But are bad overall, so sneasler is definetly broken.
Tapu lele:tapu-lele: is a pokemon that has always proven itself as Good in OU in all gens OU it has been. Very Good 130 sPA, free Life orb boost on psychic type moves, decent coverage in tbolt and focus blast, and variety of set between zmove, scarf and specs that fit Well in the same archetypes making it difficult to guess which one it is till It's too late and the spamability of It's moves make it a big menace. While gholdengo kept it in check, the lack of recovery from aegislash make it ways more difficult to check this mon, Even more now that kingambit:kingambit: that could pressure a choiced set via pursuit is gone. No pokemon really checks it and celesteela is weak to tbolt and doesnt Have that huge recovery ghold had.
Iron valiant:iron-valiant: is another mon that has risen a lot. While some mons would appear as check/counters, valiant, being a fusion between two mons with large movepool, Also has one. Sd, cm, moonblast(should be a bullet move and let kommo-o rise), cC, fblast, spirit break, ssneak, destiny bond, tbolt, twave, encore, energy ball, Knock off, leaf blade, psychic/shock, Tera blast, opportunity to run z-moves, it is ways too unpredictable. Even ghold died to sd/koff and now, flash canon aegislash may be the only real answer to the devil, and isn't viable anw.
 

ChrisPBacon

idola deus
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis the defending SM Circuit Champion
:iron valiant:
no action, this guy not broken asf glowking is a top mon in the tier and even then most stuff can absorb some hits from special quite decently and phys just doesnt hit that hard so w good play yes this is a top mon but nobody wld call this broken idt

:tapu-lele: also not broken lol, ppl are acting like the tier is gonna fall apart without ghold as a steel, no there is still msciz, heatran, glowking, dark type + pivot for psychic, etc. Ghold being gone also means more free fog which hurts lele considering it rly appreciates spikes digging into its checks

:sneasler: i can understand a suspect, although i would personally vote dnb, but i think quickbanning this is a bit silly - defensive teams shouldnt be struggling to this too much with the existence of dozo not to mention other checks like mola/pex/glisc which at the least force a tera out if sneas wants to beat them which can be exploited with ur own tera. vs offense i havent actually seen this be nuts, like yes if u play passively vs it and give it an sd you will lose but with punishing setup, prio revenge kill, and defensive tera on stuff like lu and zap its much more manageable than it looks on paper. ofc its still a rly strong mon so i can see reasons for suspect but rn im no ban until i see evidence of this thing being nuts post-ban

:baxcalibur: yeahhhh ok i was on the fence before but i can get behind banning this, this thing is like sneasler but it doesnt have to setup in ideal conditions to break everything, v hard to find consistent switchins to this and unlike sneas tends to force tera without needing to commit it on its own

cant be asked to write abt blood moon that thing is broken asf pls no more cm blissey
 
There's a lot of 0 effort posts and 1 liners in this thread already and I just want to make sure we avoid them throughout the rest of this discussion.

Just posting Ursaluna BM: QB offers not a whole lot to the conversation, why do you think that? why do you think X mon should be looked at first over the others? what are your personal experiences with and vs these Pokemon; have you found any neat ways of dealing with them? etc etc

There are so many questions that you can answer in a post here that furthers the discussion and provides meaningful insight to us evaluating these opinions in order to come to a decision. So please, try and avoid 1 liners and 0 effort posts here on out as they'll just be deleted for not offering anything of importance.

If you posted already and realize your post might be a bit lacking in substance feel free to go back and edit in some opinions :blobthumbsup:
 
sorry But all of them should be qb asap. ursa:ursaluna-bloodmoon: tanks mlop:lopunny-mega:'s cC, which is a big no-no. Tera gives it ways too much options And Even without It's a big delete button. Its ability + typing gives It near perfect coverage And spdef celesteela:celesteela: is the only real answer. i'm not saying It is bad, But ursa surely is broken.
baxcalibur:baxcalibur: is very broken, With the buff of Ice type in gen9 via snow mechanics, giving It a nearly perfect ally in ninetales-a:ninetales-alola:. Indeed, It has a valid support movepool in aurora veil, encore and hypnosis. The bulk of bax Also makes It too hard to deal with. Aurora veil+ snow is too much for a mon with 115/96/72 bulk with access to ddance, icicle spear, sd, glaive rush and scale shot, with a prio If needed (Ice shard) and Just enough coverage (Earthquake) and to counter It only ironpress orthworm:orthworm:(not so Good) or toxic bronzong:bronzong: strike me If not dondozo:dondozo: that is 2hko by band Tera dragon versions of The set. Cause yes, add to The aforementionned sd and ddance The choiced sets, clearly potent. Could've been banned Even with ghold around.

Now, these mons that Have snowballed with gholdengo :gholdengo: being gone.

Sneasler :sneasler: is very strong and Even aegislash:aegislash::aegislash-blade:, that looks Good on paper to wall It struggles because of The multiplication of sd and not having a so Good offensive power (makeitrain>flash cannon) While It is obligated to use king's shield half of The time not to be ohko anw. Psycho cut is a bad set, and so is hypothetically psychium z psycho cut. It struggles to deal real damage While tanking hits, and sneasler otherwise kill everything in the meta, whirlwind skarmory:skarmory: being the one meta thing that'll always be here to sTOP It, thanks to sturdy+dire claw immunity, and If hazards are on field, Well It's goodbye for it. While sneasler may look not so dangerous against poison types, none Can effectively take all hits, except maybe physdef toxtricity:toxtricity::toxtricity-low-key:, something no conscious person would play, and anw dire claw's statuses Will invalidate 'em. Red card mons would be an answer But are bad overall, so sneasler is definetly broken.
Tapu lele:tapu-lele: is a pokemon that has always proven itself as Good in OU in all gens OU it has been. Very Good 130 sPA, free Life orb boost on psychic type moves, decent coverage in tbolt and focus blast, and variety of set between zmove, scarf and specs that fit Well in the same archetypes making it difficult to guess which one it is till It's too late and the spamability of It's moves make it a big menace. While gholdengo kept it in check, the lack of recovery from aegislash make it ways more difficult to check this mon, Even more now that kingambit:kingambit: that could pressure a choiced set via pursuit is gone. No pokemon really checks it and celesteela is weak to tbolt and doesnt Have that huge recovery ghold had.
Iron valiant:iron-valiant: is another mon that has risen a lot. While some mons would appear as check/counters, valiant, being a fusion between two mons with large movepool, Also has one. Sd, cm, moonblast(should be a bullet move and let kommo-o rise), cC, fblast, spirit break, ssneak, destiny bond, tbolt, twave, encore, energy ball, Knock off, leaf blade, psychic/shock, Tera blast, opportunity to run z-moves, it is ways too unpredictable. Even ghold died to sd/koff and now, flash canon aegislash may be the only real answer to the devil, and isn't viable anw.
I really don't see Iron Valiant and Tapu Lele as menances per say, your viewpoint makes it sound like these 2 are the devil's children(when in reality they aren't). I can agree with the Bax and Bloodmoon dilemma however, and have a few thoughts on it as well.
Idfk how to do the mini sprites, so Ima do the pictures instead:)

1699197040050.png

Baxcalibur is definitely who I want to ban first, as not only does it suffer from a lack of checks but also is too overpowered when it comes to screen abusage. You have to have some sort of counter from the get-go, otherwise it can simply set up once and destroy your team if you don't have a Pokémon designated to hit it. The only mons that can somewhat wall it are very obscure and limits the team building potential significantly. As such, you are usually forced to build some sort of countermeasure first and respond first, leaving you in a very bad situation even as the battle starts. The first two that wall Bax that come to mind are Dondozo and Skeledirge, both of which suffer from a lack of speed that can be easily fixed by other team members such as Alolan Ninetales and Tapu Lele respectively. Even though I occasionally indulge in this Pokémon to grind, it's too overpowered as is and at the very least needs a quick ban vote.
1699195942797.png
Bloodmoon is also a mon that has been on my watchlist for some time, and it actually reminds me of Mega Lopunny combined with Gholdengo, which is funny because the latter was banned. I think while it was nice to see it function within the meta at first, the assessment by the mods that the meta does not support bulky wincon's is wrong, as this mon is literally the counter to that point. BU's recovery, stackable stats, and overpowered move in Blood Moon on there own would make it good, but combined together form a terrifying combo that is only heightened by the fact Ghost types can't do anything thanks to its ability, Mind's Eye. As such, I would favor a suspect test, but seeing that this mon may wreck havoc if it stays it might be better if it goes in a quickban.


1699196754181.png1699196781800.png


Both of the mons above have in the past been mitigated by Dengo, but now that he is gone I can see a tiny(emphasis on tiny) bit as to why some people want them gone. However, unless we see some real unbalanced play coming from these two that their checks can't handle(*coughs Glowking), I really don't see a need to get rid of them and favor just watching them for the mean time, so no action for now .
As for Sneasler I have no comment because I am on the fence for the mon, I run Sinistcha which always counters(yells in happy gibberish) and I already wrote two posts so I am very lazy now.
Cya.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
QB baxcalibur. this guy rips teams to shreds with little checks thanks to it's astronomically high attack and immense bulk bolstered by snow and aurora veil it's extremely difficult to kill.

QB ursaluna-bloodmoon. This guy is basically an automatic 2 pokemon gone if it gets up 1 or 2 cms due to its high spa hp and decent defenses

Sneasler for suspect. While I do believe it is broken I don't believe it's broken to the same extent as the others.

Iron valiant: no action

Tapu lele: suspect this is thing is very different to check due to being a great scarfer and being very difficult to Revenge kill immediately due to Psy terrain preventing priority moves.
However I do not believe it is impossible to handle due to its often reliance on choice items.
 

Yxzwilliam

Banned deucer.
IRON VALIANT needs to be QB, due to the fact mega scissor can't even switch in on it 3 times. Moltres gets hurt by thunderbolt, Moon Blast smacks zapdos, so it's not a solid answer your losing a Pocket Monster before u answer iron valiant. Note I'm an iron valiant specs spammer so it's just broken. It can run encore swords dance knock off, for glow king it's to versatile. Not adding in its mixed set.

BAXCALIBUR needs to be QB now this is just common-sense it abuses screens like its Chris brown vs Rihanna Im not even fing joking. No matter the unaware Pocket Monster it has the ability to shiest upon with Tera ground E quake, or a simple icicle spear kills max def max hp clef :skull: and than the breaking power of its non boosted ass is cracked upon. Like yall banned pult before bax yall wild wild . Respect


URSALUNA QB Jesus if it just didn't take losing 79 hp or a Pocket Monster to stop it...... Oh wait it takes more because there for sure switching or trick rooming with cress or sum other dip shit :D. OH don't forget Kee berry boosting Phys def by getting hit by a physical hit which Ursaluna tanks like a Champ!!, and then calm minds :D


SNEASLER Sus ok its the greatest cleaner to hit pokemonshowdown.gov If your losing to it by Koko screens u turn into sneasler Your bad It's not that Brokennn I mean like just play well vs it u can win no problem just have the correct lead now I will say if u have lost ur only mon to beat it ur screwed and sometimes bc its Ho u have to sacrifice or u get 6-0ed instead of a nice 4-0 :D Bc of what. TERA flying!

TAPU LELE no action needed/ sus its speed tier makes it not bannable bc when specs u get outsped or read. when scarfed it doesn't hit as hard but oh wait! tera psychic. DO YOU SEE THIS TREND! tera is broken dang near every mon up here is uber bc of it!..... Thank You. :)
 

Kin+ak (✧∇✧)

I COULD BE BANNED!
Even though I could hardly understand it due to poor grammar
Well excuse me If english is my second language.
:tapu-lele: DNB easily pursuited
You meant easely kills pursuit users? Last i checked only aV ttar would take moonblast While threatening it with pursuit
era is broken dang near every mon up here is uber bc of it!..... Thank You. :)
Tera banned won't drop mons like draga, ghold, gambit, and most likely melmetal Will be qb again. shaymin sky is unimpacted by tera and So are banned mega evolutions. ogerpon-h was almost because of tera But mold breaker was more useful against Stall against which it was The most broken.
 
Well excuse me If english is my second language.

You meant easely kills pursuit users? Last i checked only aV ttar would take moonblast While threatening it with pursuit

Tera banned won't drop mons like draga, ghold, gambit, and most likely melmetal Will be qb again. shaymin sky is unimpacted by tera and So are banned mega evolutions. ogerpon-h was almost because of tera But mold breaker was more useful against Stall against which it was The most broken.
Melm would come back absolutely, but I agree with the other stuff, also your English is fine man ignore him. To not make this pointless
:Iron Valiant: :Tapu Lele: no action as of now. While I understand some concerns about Lele in a non Ghold meta, remember that tera psychic specs could break it down with spikes up anyway. I think it actually mostly is a positive addition with scarf being great accessible speed control and revenge killing tool. It's actually pretty possible to reasonably limit the threat of specs with proper scouting and building. Valiant I feel similarly and though it's potential for possibly being too much, I think it's a great tool both for and against offense and its wide versatility makes it a very customizable pokemon players can use to fill a number of roles. Which I find a positive thing for fhe metagames.
I agree that there is no issue with iron valiant right now but lele with tera obtains the power that scarf would otherwise be lacking in so it needs a suspect test
 
Well excuse me If english is my second language.

You meant easely kills pursuit users? Last i checked only aV ttar would take moonblast While threatening it with pursuit

Tera banned won't drop mons like draga, ghold, gambit, and most likely melmetal Will be qb again. shaymin sky is unimpacted by tera and So are banned mega evolutions. ogerpon-h was almost because of tera But mold breaker was more useful against Stall against which it was The most broken.
You're right, I formally apologize for that. I happen to have dyslexia and ADHD and think people do that on purpose, but there's no excuse and I hope you can forgive.
IRON VALIANT needs to be QB, due to the fact mega scissor can't even switch in on it 3 times. Moltres gets hurt by thunderbolt, Moon Blast smacks zapdos, so it's not a solid answer your losing a Pocket Monster before u answer iron valiant. Note I'm an iron valiant specs spammer so it's just broken. It can run encore swords dance knock off, for glow king it's to versatile. Not adding in its mixed set.

BAXCALIBUR needs to be QB now this is just common-sense it abuses screens like its Chris brown vs Rihanna Im not even fing joking. No matter the unaware Pocket Monster it has the ability to shiest upon with Tera ground E quake, or a simple icicle spear kills max def max hp clef :skull: and than the breaking power of its non boosted ass is cracked upon. Like yall banned pult before bax yall wild wild . Respect


URSALUNA QB Jesus if it just didn't take losing 79 hp or a Pocket Monster to stop it...... Oh wait it takes more because there for sure switching or trick rooming with cress or sum other dip shit :D. OH don't forget Kee berry boosting Phys def by getting hit by a physical hit which Ursaluna tanks like a Champ!!, and then calm minds :D


SNEASLER Sus ok its the greatest cleaner to hit pokemonshowdown.gov If your losing to it by Koko screens u turn into sneasler Your bad It's not that Brokennn I mean like just play well vs it u can win no problem just have the correct lead now I will say if u have lost ur only mon to beat it ur screwed and sometimes bc its Ho u have to sacrifice or u get 6-0ed instead of a nice 4-0 :D Bc of what. TERA flying!

TAPU LELE no action needed/ sus its speed tier makes it not bannable bc when specs u get outsped or read. when scarfed it doesn't hit as hard but oh wait! tera psychic. DO YOU SEE THIS TREND! tera is broken dang near every mon up here is uber bc of it!..... Thank You. :)
I don't see any problem with Valiant, as stated before. The scenarios you put involve Moltres, which is ironic as he only rose in usage due to Dengo, and really has no niche in meta. As for spamming choice specs, multiple mons outspeed(like lele[Hint Hint Wink Wink]) and its not as if he's tanky like Bloodmoon.
 
Last edited:
:Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: just like most have already suggested is probably quick ban material given it's inherently broken stat spread for calm mind abuse in addition to the 140 power signature move in conjunction to ability that let's it hit ghost types so you can't exactly dance around it either ( quite a LOT of things coming together to break this pokemon imo) . But here's the thing which frustrates people, all it needs to do is swap around one of four moves in it's movepool to choose you're playstyle with this pokemon. The first set I'd wanna talk about is the aggressive calm mind vaccume wave sweeper ( which I think runs tera-fighting but I might be wrong) and this set also runs speed, so its a hyper-aggressive sweeper who tries to set up as much as possible and beat faster offensive mons with priority before they can take advantage of it being bulkless /recovery-lacking, works best on screens ( all sets work great on screens but the other sets also work great in other playstyles while this one is usually overshadowed by the other sets when it comes to non-screens given it's one time usage nature) . Next we have CM 2A moonlight which is heavily invested in bulk . This set completely wipes traditional balance teams off of the face of the earth as offensive pokemon would tend to struggle to OHKO it between the bulk and tera while defensive pokemon don't exactly last long enough to take hits from it either. Not much else to be said about this really . And lastly I'd like to bring up a Sub CM set that I have been toying with lately ( with enough speed investment for blissey and rest in hp and spatk) , this set actually does insanely well into stall with stall's only hope being a terastalizing clodsire ( which can be taken advantage of by other pokemon like valiant) , not to mention Ursaluna-B is more than capable enough to have it's sub sustain one hit atleast from the likes of blissey, corv and gliscor enabling it to nab more set up to blow past them. Not to mention that even against balance, every time this pokemon gets off a sub, the opponent is forced to sac something more often than not just to get rid of the sub and proceed to knock it out or atleast scare it out. My biggest problem with ursa is the way between tera and bulk almost no physical attacker can one shot it and down the line with maybe two calm minds I don't think special attackers do either, to say nothing off how luna OHKOs almost any non-resist offensive pokemon with its insane signature move even without boosts so it's not like it can't make progress without calm mind either.

:Baxcalibur:, no surprise here. Does almost the same thing it did in OU really. DD under screens and potentially snow is practically an unbeatable matchup for most offense and balance teams if they don't meticulously retain momentum throughout the course of the game ( which is by all means unreasonable justification) . Loaded dice makes it hit insanely hard by passing a lot of sweeper fail safes like substitute and multiscale. Glaive rush is a similarly hard hitting move, but with a way to get around it's drawback. More often than not DD bax uses glaive rush only on pokemon it knows it can OHKO and then just resets the double damage vulnerability with a follow up move which should come out first given all the speed boosts. On top of this tera makes it similarly broken as ursaluna-B, letting it take hits from stuff throughout the tier while OHKOing a large portion of them in return ( ofc the defensive tera abuse is not as bad as ursaluna-B imo but it's still pretty bad, considering sometimes it can use the tera to take a hit and possibly set up if it finds a window to run away with game.God forbid we have SD scale shot for those who want an immediate breaker and a speed boosting sweeper in one package. Not much to be said here really, it's absolutely insane how dangerous this set is under screens given it's priority resistant typing and inherently great bulk. By opinion on this is obviously that it's broken and needs a quickban


:Sneasler: , I think that the ban of Gholdengo heavily benefits this as it doesn't have the moveslot syndrome and now becomes a full fledged acro+CC+dire claw abuser which not only already has the power to muscle past a large part of the tier but also a solid chance to inflict table turning status conditions like sleep and paralysis at an unreasonably probable rate, letting it run away with matchups it has no business taking. It's one of the best tera abusers in the game and more often than not the prefered tera-captain of the team due to how effective it is at sweeping. Unburden with that speed stat also makes it one of the most reliable fail safes against opposing sweepers so sweeping for opposing teams is gonna be a pipe dream as long as this pokemon is alive ( for the most part) . The only reason I think this isn't as broken as the other two and warrents just a suspect test is bcuz it's a one-time sweep voucher which loses affect if switched out and thereby doesn't have the flexibility of bax Or bloodmoon, not to mention that even against opposing pokemon, this pokemon frailness can be capitalized on by pokemon who can defensive tera to soak up a hit and knock it out in return ( more often than not a worth while trade as sneasler is usually the most dangerous pokemon in it's team for the most part) . Lastly it's terrain reliant and does not really function that well with balloon or normal gem fake out sets, unlike the other two which can be slapped on a whole array of playstyles. Nonetheless, the fact the sheer offensive threat of SD, CC, acro in addition to that insane speed boost in conjunction with dire claw hax should suffice to warrent a suspect test .


:Iron Valiant: Personally I don't think this pokemon is really even problematic. Booster energy offensive sets while they do provide for being excellent fail safes against opposing sweepers and give it potent sweeping potential in it's own right is effectively much worse than something like for example sneasler in practice. While specs sets have counters like slowing-G . Calm mind tera electric imo might be the most potent, but even that has it's issues. Not to say valiant is bad ofc, such set variety alone makes it a top pokemon in the metagame, not to mention other cheesy tools like encore and destiny bond which opponents simply can't really afford to account for when facing valiant. Only thing is that this pokemon is much more manageable compared to the other two and hardly feels overbearing so in my opinion this is warrents no action.

:Tapu lele: Personally don't have much of an opinion on this pokemon yet as I haven't used it much lately so I don't want to make assumptions.
 
:Baxcalibur: :Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: :Sneasler:
Please Quickban these 3 all together.

:Baxcalibur: :Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: I don’t want to say much about these 2. They carry a lot of bulk, can set up freely with the likes of Tera and with/without screens (especially moon who has recovery), and should just be Quickbanned.

:Sneasler: This pokemon can set up really easily with screens from Tapu Koko and is a great partner with Tapu Lele. Now with Gholdengo gone, the only mon that can be an issue to it is Zapdos, but it can freely run Gunk Shot and just OHKO it. Even if Gholdengo remained in the tier, this mon still should have had action taken on it. It's almost impossible to revenge kill, outspeeding about every scarfer. Even with defensive mons like Pex, Gliscor, and LandoT, who can live acrobatics and get a toxic on this mon, it's either going to leave a huge dent on your team or just eat it entirely. These mons are going to drop from acrobatics anyways and can potentially get hit by sleep/paralysis from Dire Claw (even though I believe Gunk Shot is better) and left vulnerable. Please Quickban.

:Iron Valiant: I honestly find this pokemon more problematic than lele, I’ll even say its one of the best mons the tier with its incredible speed and amazing coverage. It has so many sets and it's an absolute beast with Tapu Koko. Obviously there are ways to deal with this mon such as: :Slowking-Galar: :Volcarona: :Scizor-Mega: . This mon really should be looked at and be Suspect tested.

:Tapu lele: This pokemon serves as an excellent scarfer, has great coverage with Focus Blast, and can offer Future Sight support at times. Its Specs set hits insanely hard and can dent some steels with Tera Psychic, but its speed loss is a big weakness to it. This mon is going to be choice-locked 99.9% of the time, allowing you to play around it and potentially even pursuit trapping it. I don't think this mon is really that bad, which is why I think it should be Suspect tested.
 

Yxzwilliam

Banned deucer.
Pls look into OGERPON WELLSPRING it has no switch ins its speed tier is beyond cracked to have 120 physical atk and 2 moves over 100 base power, that are stab moves and, a nice fairy coverage for dragons plus sd, making it a threat to the entire meta. What pushes it over the edge is once again.. tera water adding a spd boost permanently, plus adding a water boost to its stab move that already has a high critical chance, basically self drizzle, plus water absorb ...:row: the only thing walling it is ferro and still +2 252 Atk Wellspring Mask Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 147-174 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 380-450 (103.5 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 189-223 (49.2 - 58%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor-Mega: 249-294 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO than it decides to tera after Swords dance how do u think that goes?
+2 252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 277-327 (106.1 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Than tera either pushes a mon over the edge or it legit just makes it OU Zacian crowned:smogonbird:
And if you do your reasearch even at like 75 hp no mon that outspeeds it and kills not even 252 SpA Quark Drive Tera Grass Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera: 278-330 (92.3 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO like bro wtf? and ye sludge wave stops ogerpon 1 shot but thats only... WHEN HES NOT TERA WATER FOR GOD SAKE BAN TERA AND THIS LIL SHIT:worrywhirl: and ogerpon can make tera plays so i dont wanna hear no well if i predict right.. NO BE QUIET bc all this lil shit has to do is tera water and ur only mon that kills it dies and u needed to tera sum else to win like bro
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top